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+---- Thread: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) (/showthread.php?tid=33)
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Salazar Slytherin - 06-25-2022
Salazar studied his friend for a moment, curious as well. First and foremost, he wouldn't have thought that his friend would have known a word like societal. Experiment yes, but societal was a new one. Maybe his influence was finally rubbing off.
Not that Godric was an idiot by any means. He just wasn't quite as sophisticated as the others, as far as his words went. He used simple ones. And it fit his personality. Big words were more his and Rowena's forte, whereas they were the indulgent scholars while Godric learned better by doing. Salazar wasn't quite certain how Helga had learned - through one or the other or both? Curious that they had never discussed it before in all their years of friendship.
In regards to Godric though, perhaps this scholastic endeavor was about improving themselves as well as their students, however.
It didn't take much to understand what his friend spoke of though. "Do you mean whether some of Helga's students will only enjoy cooking or household charms or herbology? And my students be high achievers and successful, loving defense and the natural magics as I do?" He asked curiously, looking to Helga to see what she made of this theory. Knowing her values as he did, he wondered if she would think it right to be comparing their students in such a way when the whole purpose was to simply improve on the condition of the magical community at large. Was it right to be comparing, in that case?
There was a gleam in Godric's eyes though. Salazar hadn't quite hit the nail on the head but he was close to describing what his friend meant.
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Helga Hufflepuff - 06-26-2022
Helga smiled as Godric followed her instructions, her eyes closing so she couldn't see the look of amazement on his face but she could tell by his tone of voice as he spoke that he was rather impressed. "House elves are a strong magical race, they often are not given the credit they deserve when it comes to magical skill and the amount of discipline they have while using magic. I couldn't have asked for better staff to help me work some magic in the kitchen" she said with a touch of pride and joy. Opening her eyes, she looked at Godric as he filled his goblet then down at her own as she gave a small subtle shake of her head. "They have been made aware of your fondness for midnight snacks as well so should you find yourself peckish during the night just stop by the kitchens and they should have something for you and Rhona."
She looked at Godric again, her mind needing a few more minutes then usual to make sense of what he was saying they should do since no one seemed to be in the mood for charades. Helga turned to Rowena as she spoke about an experiment while the area around her best friend went hazy. Lastly it was Salazar who managed to add the last touch to help her mind piece together what they were all discussing now though she couldn't help but notice their were two Salazars seated across from her now. Had there always been two of him and she just had never noticed?
Well she could worry about it later, the more pressing matter she realized was what they all seemed to be proposing and she slightly firm shake of her head causing the room to spin a bit. She closed her eyes again hoping it would help the feeling pass and softly folded her arms across her chest. "Well, I don't like it one bit. Competition and experiments between us is one thing but I don't like having to involve our students. What does it matter if they like or don't like to do what I do? I wasn't all for this separating of students based on our separate ideals and traits. What does it matter if they are strongly courageous or cleverly witty? Isn't it better we embrace the students as they are for their strengths and challenges regardless if they share those traits with us or now? I could very well have someone who hates charms in my house but excels in potions or Rowena you could have someone who decides to toss aside the books and charge head first into reckless danger. People are unexpected and sometimes they have talents they don't always express right away and the sorting hat while it did seem to do just what we enchanted it to do, just finds their strongest match but that doesn't mean its the only match. Its just where it finds the place they will find the most support to grow regardless in what exactly they decide to grow and strengthen in. We should be encouraging them to learn and grow as a team together not competing as separate parties like one is better then the others" Helga explained, her tone of voice hinting that her mood had suddenly shifted again and it wasn't happy. Yet there was a little obvious note of a slur to some of her words and an inner Helga hoped her friends would take note of her drunken state and forgive her for causing them the trouble again. She probably shouldn't have had any more wine given how tired she was but it was too late to turn back now.
Opening her eyes, Helga looked at her goblet where she had set it on the table, unable to look up at anyone at the moment. It was clear it was going to take some strong convincing to change her mind, regardless of her slightly drunken state currently. She was strongly for equality and fairness, not just for the many magical races but for everyone in general. While competition did sometimes help boost people to work harder at doing their best she had seen one too many times the negative side of what competition did to people and it wasn't something she liked to see. The students were here to learn and trusted them to teach them what they needed, not pit them against one another because they wanted to see who was better or displayed their houses traits the strongest.
"I wont stop you all from your fun but I won't be part of it and I'm highly against involving our students as well. Making them compete with one another, thats just asking for trouble not to mention it brings out the worst in some people when they think they have something to gain from competition. Not to mention it makes those of stronger spirit pick on those weaker for their own personal gain instead of offering a hand to help them out. Thats not the lesson I want students to grasp at while they are here and I hope you all don't either." She added, then reaching for her goblet she waved her wand at the wineskin and poured more into her cup to about halfway before lowering the wineskin back down to the table. Helga settled back in her chair, far and deep enough back into the cushions that just the tips of her toes touched the floor and she fought back the very subtle urge to swing her feet back and forth under her chair as she took a long slow drink of wine from her goblet.
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Godric Gryffindor - 06-28-2022
"Come now, I'm not talking about trying new spells out on them." Godric forced back a sigh. He'd known that this would be Helga's reaction but he had to try. "Fair competition is healthy in all aspects of life. It's also quite natural, as young people will always try to one up each other.
"Why, when I was a page, there was nothing but competition between us. Who could polish our knight's saddle better or who could come out with the sharpest weapons? It made us want to be better students, not just for the praise or the better rations but also the pride in a job well done. I doubt I would be half the knight I am today were in not for that." He tried to reason with her. "I believe it's encouraging them to give us their best selves, make them want to strive for praise and attention.
"Maybe the rewards not be over the top - a special treat now and then or a trip into the trading post. Even if it's just privileges earned with good behavior. Yes, sometimes competition can bring the worst out in people but I don't see it in every situation. But that's just my opinion. If you others believe it unacceptable, I shall simply implement it in my own house and be done with the matter altogether."
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Rowena Ravenclaw - 06-29-2022
Rowena wasn't surprised by Helga's stance on the matter, given her stance on the separation of the students into houses to begin with. It didn't stop her from considering Godric's point of view though. He did have a point.
"To be fair, I don't see a problem with a little friendly competition if it helps to motivate the students to continue bettering themselves and their skills," she stated. "The question is just how to implement it in a fair manner that will not put them in harmful situations."
Leaning back in her chair, she thought about the options. Her sapphire eyes cut over to Salazar, her fellow intellectual, and wondered what his take would be. "What say you, Salazar?" she asked, almost in a friendly challenge.
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Salazar Slytherin - 06-29-2022
Salazar had expected Helga's response and therefor, was neither surprised nor disappointed. While Godric did have a point - that young people competed all the time naturally - would rewarding it so blatantly be harmful to their well-being? How could they make it fair, truly.
"If there is to be something, it should be taken into account with the discipline system." He didn't even look at Helga to know she probably didn't like that idea either. "As we all have seen, there is a need for boundaries in young people - firm guidance lest they go astray." His mother had certainly not spared the rod when he'd needed it - nor had Godric's father. Maybe the girls had been more protected but he knew for a fact that even little Gwen had been switched a few times when she'd been young. Godric had hated it and Salazar had had to remind him that if they could both survive it, so could his little sister.
"If we wish to avoid any sort of physical punishment, then we must rely on the mental. Acting out doesn't just waste our time but also hurts their classmates, interrupts the flow of learning. So..." His mind was zeroing in on something but he couldn't quite visualize it in his head.
"Peer pressure! It works in adults all the time. We must come up with a system that either rewards them as a group or punishes them as a group. If one succeeds, they all succeed in a way. If one fails..." He smiled, hoping this would get Helga to see the point. "If one fails, then the others are encouraged to help that struggling person in order that they might all succeed. We could go by years advanced but it would be easier to sort by house - after all, I would have to say the four of us are the most competitive people in this castle. We compete naturally; I doubt our students will be any different."
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Helga Hufflepuff - 06-30-2022
As Helga listened to the trio seated around her try to explain the idea of competition among the students would be good for them, she knew the two that would try to convince her but she hadn't fully expected Rowena to be fully on board and siding with Godric and Salazar. Then again, she knew how her best friend dipped into her own competitive nature when it came to book education and increasing her own knowledge, if she had something to gain especially to gloat in a friendly manner over them she did tend to go for it.
Needless to say, once her friend had had a chance to reply and try to convince her the idea would be more beneficial to their new students then she was seeing, Helga had finished the wine in her goblet and unfortunately her minds decision had not been swayed no matter her friend's efforts. She had just witnessed one too many times what competition did to people and she didn't like it. Though most of her examples had to do with a magical race versus witches and wizards but it was still something that had made her see enough of the darker side of people. True, not everyone turned into a bully or a power hungry git but it did happen and it was especially present in adolescent children and young adults, when that odd age between becoming an adult changed you physically, mentally, and spiritually. They had all been through it during their own growing up but somehow they thought it was a good idea to put more effort into bringing out in the students here? And Peer Pressure? Honestly? That was just asking for trouble if only just as much.
"Seems I am outnumbered" Helga said and she leaned forward to set her empty goblet onto the table. She stood up, only to sit back down a moment later in what looked as though she was just readjusting her seated position. In reality, she had felt her balance sway as soon as her feet were bearing her weight and she had just luckily enough gone backwards into her chair instead of to the floor or into the table. A rather nice spot of luck she realized. "I concede then, go ahead with your competition among the students and houses. However I will make it clear now, any incident of students bullying, belittling, or purposefully threatens another no matter what the house for the main purpose of strengthening their own ego and beating them in this competition is to be given an equally fitting punishment both to the individual and the house, no exceptions. If we are supposed to be setting an example for the students in our house, they should be made clear that we do it for fun, harmless and to a certain level, never to intimidate harshly, unnecessarily harm, or put people down because they want to win."
She sat back in her chair, arms folded across her chest and she wore a soft stone expression as she looked more at the center of the table then any of her friends, not quite mad but just a touch so with a hint of upset. They were supposed to be bringing wizard kind together by teaching the younger generations yet it seemed important to make a competition happen to encourage further learning growth? I didn't make sense to Helga but she gave in anyway. Her friends had often given in to her silly ideas and plans in the past that they were deserving of a few from her. Didn't mean she had to be happy about it, mildly drunk or fully sober. "So, how are you proposing we keep track of rewards and punishments between the houses? We can't very well hire someone to be in every room of the castle just to keep count of awarded rewards or punishments. I suppose we could write a scroll each time with the students house whether it was a good point or bad and collect them all up into the sorting hat to tally together at the end of a time frame such as two weeks or a month then the winning house gets the reward before it all resets for the next one" She asked.
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Godric Gryffindor - 07-01-2022
"It's true," Godric agreed with Helga. "There may be some less than appealing behavior due to whatever system we implement but that was always going to be the case. Human nature is, unfortunately and quite often, cruel. That's why you are correct - any sign of bullying or overt pressuring to succeed caught by one of us or the other staff will be disciplined without question. I was hoping, with this system in play, it might be enough to keep them from misbehaving but then again, nothing is perfect."
The question was, how to create a system that wouldn't be more work for them. That was the key. The less work they had to do for it, the better. "Come now, surely the four of us are brilliant enough to figure out a magical solution?! If we can make a hat that can look into the students head, we must be able to think of something magical for this as well. Maybe a display of some sort so that all the children can see it - can see where they stand at the beginning and end of each day?"
What possible spell could be used that would recognize such a thing and record it from anywhere in the castle, which at this point, is already somewhat sentient? Would they have to create another one, as they'd done with some of the features of the castle? Or would it be better to bind a few together as they had with the hat?
Godric took a drink from his goblet and then realized what he'd just done. "Okay, I'm just realizing that some of us probably aren't in our full capacity. After all, it's a celebration! We can always put a pin in it - just so we can start thinking about something that would work. And who knows? Maybe they'll all do so well that there will be no point." He held up his goblet to cheers. "Here's hoping for that!" Then he knocked the drink back.
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Rowena Ravenclaw - 07-06-2022
As the other Founders came to a consensus that there should be a system of give and take, that it should be based on reward and punishment fed by peer pressure, Ro's mind was already whirling with possibilities. Already working overtime even through the alcohol and fatigue ideas were coming to her.
From somewhere unknown she produced a self-inking quill and parchment and was sketching out some of those ideas and scribbling notes. What made the most sense to her was a points system of some sort. If they kept it numerical it would be easier to record over time. The higher the marks, the higher the reward. Plus, if wrongdoing occurred, marks could be taken away easily.
Now how to record such things magically...
She tapped the feather against her bottom lip as she considered this quandary. It would have to be in a public place if they were to count on peer pressure to keep the students in check. She quickly sketched out a few more ideas before she finally tapped the page a few times while nodding to herself. "Hourglasses," she said finally with a bit of triumph in her voice. She reached for her goblet and took a drink to cure her suddenly dry throat. "We hang four hourglasses in the Great Hall. One for each house."
Rowena looked at each of her friends then afraid they wouldn't be following her train of thought she smiled a little sheepishly, turning the parchment to face them and sliding it to the middle of the table for all to see.
"If we implement a points system, keeping things numerical for the ease of understanding and record, it would be quite simple to add or subtract from depending on circumstance," she explained. "An hourglass would be the perfect visual representation of said points. Instead of sand, I do recommend small colored stones, for visual effect and recording purposes as it's far easier to count stones than it is to count grains of sand. The more stones in the bottom, the more points that house has earned. It allows the students to know where they stand at all times. If we allow teachers to add or subtract points fairly for excelling in classes or moral fiber and subtract points for misbehavior then I think it would be reasonably easy to enchant the hourglasses to keep track automatically thus negating the need for us to tally it at the end of every day manually. We'll be far too busy to do so anyway."
Looking from the boys to Helga she hoped what she had said made sense. It seemed a perfect solution in her mind, she just hoped she had presented it correctly to the others so that they would see it as well.
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Salazar Slytherin - 07-06-2022
Salazar listened as the others explained their thoughts. While it was true, a points system and peer pressure would be good for discipline as well as reward, he still had his own ideas about what could be done to the members of his own house if they deeply displeased him. Maybe it would make things a little harder on them but he expected the best from those chosen for his house. He would certainly apply the system his friends were implementing. He just didn't think it would be enough to keep the young people in line. But what his friends wouldn't know...
As he was trying to think of a system, a thought came to his mind. Mostly because he was looking around the room for inspiration when his eyes landed on the hourglass which they used for meeting times. Just as Rowena opened her mouth, his did as well, the two of them announcing their idea at the same time. Salazar chuckled at the coincidence, sitting back in his chair and letting her take over. It would be better not to interfere when she had an idea and since it was the same one so no reason to not let her get her ideas out first.
Once she had finished, he nodded in agreement. "I hadn't thought of the jewel aspect instead of the sand. Good thinking, Rowena - much easier to see not to mention, more aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Yes, I think this will be an excellent addition to the school. Let the students take heart in seeing personally where their house stands and if they must work harder or stop lazing about for the sake of others.
"After all, the point of this is to encourage magical relations for the community as a whole. Let these students figure out their peers, figure out how to work better in harmony." Yes, that was a load of tripe but it would make the others think he was trying to go along with their plan. And in part, he did believe that the magical community needed to be closer knit in order to survive. His issue was the fact that not ALL magical people needed instruction here. Better to keep with their own kind.
However, his thoughts on that matter had been overruled so now he was going to be stuck teaching Muggleborns. Ugh.
RE: It's a Hit...Sorta (Founders) - Helga Hufflepuff - 07-06-2022
Helga just lightly swung her feet back and forth under her chair in the hopes it would help her remain focused on the topic she really wanted nothing to do with. Yet, wanting to both respect her friends and the fact they were all for this she was trying to seem involved with it. They all seemed excited and interested in it after all and she wanted to be a team player despite her opinion of it. While no doubt students of her own house may or may not be all for the idea of competition she wasn't going to discourage it because of her stand on it, let them enjoy it if thats what they wanted but she wasn't going to stand for the negative side effects that were bound to rise up from the boost to competition.
She glanced at Rowena and Salazar as they both spoke up at the same time, voicing their idea that coincidentally was the same in using hourglasses to keep track of the points. As her friend continued to explain her idea, Helga's eye gave a twitch at the mention of hanging it up in the great hall, as if it wasn't bad enough she was the only one against this but they wanted to put it up in her public space? The spot she was supposed to have the most say in the design and detail just like the library for Rowena and the dungeons for Salazar. Why couldn't it go in the main corridor or somewhere else that would be seen by everyone? Why her place? It was like her giving in to the ridiculous idea wasn't bad enough but it had to invade her space as well? Though the great hall was the first and last place students and staff went to every day so it made sense it be there. And if the staff was all in on adding and subtracting points, it was better to have it in the Great hall where they could see it just as well as students. Well, she would give it some thought in the morning. Maybe scoop out a spot for it to go so it was visible to everyone but wouldn't cause an issue with her disapproval of the whole idea. Regardless if she was for or against this idea, she would see to it that if indeed it was going in the great hall, she would have the last say on where the blasted thing went. Someplace she wouldn't need to see it laughing at her at the very least.
Helga leaned forward a bit, just enough to look over the parchment and Rowena's design. It looked interesting despite the intention and it showed her best friend hadn't lost her touch in good ideas even this late into the evening. It even made her slightly drunken mind turn a few gears as she thought about the enchantments they were going to need to use. "If we are going to have the other teachers involved with the points system, we should look into an enchantment that activates when a set pair of phrases is said to add or remove points. Something like the amount of points, whether its rewarding or penalizing followed by the house name. 10 points from this house, 25 points to that house, something or other like that and the hourglasses would react to the phrase and either add or subtract the points from the correct house hourglass. We don't need it to include the reason for the points as far as the enchantment spell, might make it work better the less words it has attached to it in fact but its still something to consider if using an enchantment is the route to go with this" she said, offering what was the loudest idea so far in her head. While they had done some rather impressive and complicated charms and enchantments around the school since they had come together as a group, this one didn't seem like too big of a task if they all worked on it together like they did with the sorting hat.